the vaccines. the threat of the delta variant remains real. we are prepared, we have the tools, we can do this. >> that was president biden tripling down on vaccines pushing for a third shot to protect americans from covid-19. we're going to be talking to the u.s. surgeon general just ahead. good morning and welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, august 19th, mika has the morning off. willie, a lot in the news as usual. absolutely. in addition to covid-19, president biden is reiterating his defense to withdraw american troops from afghanistan. in a new interview the president argues some of the chaos we've seen was inevitable. we have a pair of reports from kelly o'donnell and then richard angle. >> reporter: a chilling

assessment. the u.s. military does not have sufficient forces to rescue americans who cannot get to the kabul airport evacuation point. >> we don't have the capability to go collect large numbers of people. >> reporter: the u.s. is relying on the taliban to let americans and afghan allies pass through checkpoints to reach the airport. a risky journey. in an interview with abc news, president biden said he knew chaos was inevitable. >> we'll go back in hindsight and look but the idea somehow there was a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing i don't know how that happens. >> reporter: the pentagon says the pace of evacuations is improving but not adequate. pressed about stranded americas the president said if necessary troops would remain beyond the august 31st, withdrawal deadline. >> if there are american citizens left we'll stay until we get them all out. >> reporter: they say u.s.

intelligence said there was a prediction of a rapid collapse. but general milley saying that was weeks or months. >> there was nothing that i or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse in 11 days. >> reporter: the u.s. led evacuations is finally led quickly and smoothly from the military side of kabul airport. planes arriving and departing around the clock. it's a far cry from the bedlam monday when thousands of afghans broke into the airport so desperate to escape the taliban they clung onto departing aircraft. now miles an hour american troops have been brought in for security. today we watched troops get ready for a patrol. they're relaxed. u.s. forces may be doing this for several more days or even weeks. a group we met with no visas. >> some promise okay i will give you tomorrow, day after tomorrow. so they didn't give. >> reporter: they met with a

state department official who says they're working on getting flights for them and others who work on the base, along with their families. we saw hundreds of afghans being processed, waiting to start new but uncertain lives. while this base is much more orderly, secure, the biggest problem is getting here. because outside the perimeter, the taliban are in control. the u.s. military asked them to keep back the crowds but the tlk taliban are doing it in the air. firing in the air, sometimes beating afghans who try to approach. in jalalabad, afghans protested carrying the afghanistan flag. witnesses say the taliban opened fire, killing at least three demonstrators. afghanistan's new presumptive leader arrived in the country moving through kandahar.

he was deputy leader of the taliban when it hosted and protected osama bin laden. mike pompeo signed a peace deal with him under president trump. a deal president biden implemented rapidly pulling out american troops triggering the collapse of the afghan army and the taliban's rapid takeover. richard engel nbc news kabul. let's go to the white house and bring in correspondent josh letterman. we heard the president tell george stephanopoulos yesterday that the military would stay in the country as long as it took to get people out of the country. we got information last night of how many people got evacuated thus far, how much is it and how far do we have to go here? >> reporter: in the most recent 24 hour period, according to the white house, they were able to get out 1,800 people. that brings the total since august 14th, to 6,000 people

they've been able to evacuate. they're getting up to speed now several thousand per day. that's still short of what president biden and other officials have spoken about in terms of being able to get out 5,000 people a day or more possibly, 7,000 a day. president biden told george stephanopoulos. but this is an hour-to-hour situation and their ability to be able to do this rests on whether they're going to get continued cooperation from the taliban to let folks to the airport for these evacuations. because as you heard from richard engel's report there, there have been sporadic incidents it's difficult to figure out minute to minute whether people are able to make safe passage to the airport. the military unable to take on that task in addition to securing the airport and running the evacuation flights. amid all of this, continuing questions about how people are supposed to get to kabul if they're in other parts of the

country from which they also need to be evacuated. that is all on the table as the administration tries to ramp up this effort. they're still facing increasing questions and concerns from capitol hill and elsewhere with republicans now demanding a classified briefing for the gang of eight. the president, he is here at the white house, we do expect that at 10:00 a.m. today he will meet with his national security team in the situation to get an update not only on the military aspects of what's happening on the ground in kabul but also the political and diplomatic angles of what the u.s. is continuing to try to do with the taliban now firmly in control of afghanistan. we do not expect the president to make any remarks during that meeting so it's possible we may not hear from him today on afghanistan, willie. >> it's difficult to get those people who want to evacuate to kabul given the fact the country is completely under taliban control right now. josh, thank you so much. we saw again yesterday a

president biden defiant and defense of his policy and the decisions he's made despite what we've seen the last four days. >> and the line that stuck out to a lot of people who watched that was when the president said chaos was inevitable. a lot of people in the intel community are suggesting otherwise. let's bring in washington editor katty kay and associate editor for "the washington post," david ignatius. talk about that chaos was inevitable line from the george stephanopoulos george stephanopoulos interview yesterday. there seems to be a back and forth between the intel community and the dod right now and everyone i've spoken with in the intel community over the last three days saying no way we're not going to be blamed for something that we've been warning about all along. >> well, joe, chaos is inevitable if you start late and don't devote sufficient

resources. and then you have a chaotic situation. we're seeing a classic demonstration now of what military power can and cannot do once you've pulled out of a garrison that you had heavily maintained. the military, after a day, is able to keep order, keep orderly flow of planes and people on the military side of the airport. but when we talk about the gates and outside the gates, the reinvasion of afghanistan and it's not surprising that general milley and secretary of defense austin say that's not possible. they're not in a position to reinvade the country and guarantee the safe access. my sense, as i talk to people in the white house, watched these folks on tv, is that they are really shell shocked. this is a kind of defeat, a level of reversal that these folks have never known in their lives. these are people who have never

gotten a bad grade in school and suddenly they find the world collapsing around them. i think it's been really, really difficult for them to deal with this. it's overwhelmed every other issue for the white house. you call and ask about any other thing that was in process or being planned and the focus right now is on afghanistan period. i think that they hope that, you know, process of getting people out, a kind of air lift, plane after plane, running -- shuttling down the runway and carrying people to freedom will give a somewhat better taste. one issue they're struggling with is where are these people going to go on any long term basis. they're trying to get allies to agree to take a larger number of afghan refugees, but getting pushback on that from our closest allies who basically say this isn't our problem, there's a limited capacity what we can do, we have domestic political

problems if we take too many afghans, that's certainly true in europe. you can see it with president biden, this defensive, brittleness, he's trying to talk tough, the buck stops here, chaos was baked in, firm presidential lines of leadership but even within the white house i think there are people who wish he was being more compassionate, speaking more to the human suffering seeing around them than to the toughness and resoluteness of his own decision making. >> more than a strategic loss militarily, what i'm hearing from elected leaders here, foreign leaders across the globe, diplomats, foreign policy leaders in washington, and again across the world, is that this is more than a strategic defeat for the united states. it is a diplomatic defeat. it's a reputational defeat.

i had one leader from the middle east yesterday who had very little use for donald trump's presidency and the chaos that that brought but asking me, do you really think that we're thinking america is back? do you really think that this -- that america's reputation is any better now than it was one year ago? making reference to when donald trump was in office. suggesting that the united states' reputation has suffered yet again. i'll just -- i'll use the word, a catastrophic blow globally among our allies. >> what a change from june and that g-7 meeting when there was a kind of triumphant reentry into the world by joe biden and he was welcomed with open arms and they were all delighted to see biden back and america back

in the game. and what you're hearing totally publicly now from allies right across europe, mps in the uk, conservative mps, standing up in parliament saying they're ashamed the u.s. commander in the chief is blaming afghans, some they fought alongside, and not taking any of the blame itself. and other comments about the u.s. performance here from other allies. i think more broadly the concern is -- i lived here for some time and i have always bought the argument that the u.s. intelligence community, military performance, national security operation at large could do what it needed to do around the world, that it was effective, that it was powerful, that it was competent. and i think for those of us who believe that the world is better off when america is strong and

healthy and engaged, to see the level of incompetence that we saw in the very first stages of this operation was really worrying. because if they got that so wrong, what else might they get wrong around the world? those are the kinds of questions and conversations i'm having with diplomats. some of whom have actually already been questioning the national security team of this white house. early on in the biden presidency, i was surprised to hear a couple of european ambassadors here in washington say to me, you know, it's interesting, they all sound really smart and they've all god the right grades, as david says, but they don't listen to their allies on an issue like iran for example where one ambassador i spoke to has background on this. he said i can't get them to engage at all, they don't want to listen to what we have to say

at all. but i'm listening to those conversations now and thinking maybe there was something there. i think it's the lack of confidence in the national security operation and how it was handled, the whole withdrawal from kabul that has shaken america's allies at the moment. >> david, we saw the president saying this chaos was inevitable saying that to george stephanopoulos yesterday. we had general milley, the chairman of the joint chiefs saying it was estimated the taliban would roll back through the country we didn't think it would happen in 11 days but estimates were weeks to months to years. and it sounds at the top of the government there was a concession this was going to happen at some point so was there no thought of keeping a small footprint in the country so it didn't happen or is it this is going to happen so might

as well leave now? >> there was consideration of it but that was the option that president biden in the end rejected. he got advice from general milley, certainly general scott miller, our commander in kabul, miller's words i'm told were, if you pull these 2,500 troops out, it's going to be bad and it's going to be fast. you know, who knows whether the fast meant two weeks or six weeks, but that's not the point, really. the point is that biden was told that the consequences of this action would be significant and that there was every likelihood that the kabul government would fall. it was weak, it was internally divided and the -- increasingly that the predictions were it wouldn't survive. biden decided to go ahead anyway. he felt there was time to end

this. as he says he's not going to pass this onto a fifth president. but i don't think the military and other parts of the government were able to get him to focus on the practical realities of getting americans out. the only way to keep this withdrawal something that americans can be proud of is take the people who depended on us out with us. everybody knew that. it was repeated in the weeks and months before this. they just weren't able to. when ashraf ghani came to washington several months ago, he said please don't make preparations for early withdrawals of americans and people who depended on you, please don't do that. officials insist that didn't determine their policy but it obviously had some effect because they were slow in getting this organized. now i think there's this crushing sense of having let the

country down, these afghan people who depend on us down. they know how this plays. they see the whole world is watching the same images. and again for a white house that prized itself on being smart, being competent, getting things done, this isn't trump anymore, this is the good guys have come in. this has been a crushing week i think. >> a lot of military leaders have said, keeping bagram air base under military control until everyone was out of the country would have been an important step but we left that base. we want to turn to another crisis here at home with the delta variant stunting progress against the pandemic. the biden administration is employeeing new strategies to fight the virus like encouraging booster shots and mandating vaccines for nursing home staff. >> making it official, the first booster shots for the general

public will go into arms september 20th after the fda and cdc sign off, most adults fully vaccinated for at least eight months will qualify. a top priority, protecting health care workers, nursing home residents and seniors who were vaccinated first. the booster shot, a third dose of the same formula and vaccine for those fully inoculated with pfizer or moderna. >> it will be easy, show your vaccination card and you get a booster. >> reporter: for those vaccinated with johnson & johnson, a booster will likely be needed but for now there's simply not enough data. citing a variety of studies, the cdc released charts and bar graphs containing data on pfizer and moderna but the take away is simple. over time vaccine efficacy has declined meaning your chances of catching the virus increase. still effectiveness against

hospitalization while slightly decreasing remains relatively high. perhaps the biggest concern, the threat from delta. this graph showing a significant drop in efficacy. >> we are concerned that this pattern of decline we are seeing will continue in the months ahead. which could lead to reduced protection against severe disease, hospitalization and death. >> reporter: while the fully vaccinated still have a layer of protection, the cdc estimates likely near the 8 month mark after inoculation, antibodies decline. meantime, the president, using federal leverage to mandate nursing homes to vaccinate staff amid a rash of new infections. he's also ready to fight governors fighting mask mandates for schools. >> this includes using all of

the oversight authority and legal action, if appropriate -- >> reporter: with the country still struggling to give even the first dose to some 85 million americans, authorities say the booster rollout will be smoother than the original rush to get shots. never mentioning the need for mass vaccination sites, the white house says 80,000 locations nationwide will be ready, including 40,000 local pharmacies. >> this is no time to let our guard down. we need to finish the job. >> reporter: our nation planning for tomorrow as we all face an uncertain future. >> almost 200 million people have been vaccinated. we see the results of that, it is striking. there are break through cases but still a small percentage ofbreak through cases. a small percentage of side effects. it's still surprising at this late date with the delta variant going around that the government

still hasn't required vaccines for everybody working in nursing homes. i'm glad the president is moving that direction. for everybody working in hospitals. you look at states like florida and texas, they're war zones around the hospitals. it's really -- it's gotten more -- just crazy by the day in those two states. a lot of hospitals, a lot of emergency rooms where there aren't bed and people are trying to get in, they wouldn't have the vaccine requirements for pilots, flight attendants, people on airplanes. you just wonder why the white house, why leaders don't move forwards and just just go ahead and make that a nationwide requirement? it's not like there are persuadables left here. it's going to be those mandates that get enough people vaccinated that will finally, at the end of the day, drive down

the covid numbers. >> yeah, and they are moving in that direction, with things like the nursing homes and the nursing homes historically have had a surprisingly high number of employees not vaccinated. even though they're working with vulnerable old people in the health care industry. but on the question of hospital, why should somebody have to go to hospital and come up against somebody not vaccinated. we're hearing examples of paramedics saying i believe in god, i pray to my faith and believe that's enough for my family. it's not going to work in a health care setting where you have vulnerable people coming in already. you're right on the persuadables. the trouble with the booster thing is, we know that everybody vaccinated is going to be happy to get the booster. you and i will queue up tomorrow morning if we have to to get the booster. it's not going to help with the

number of people vaccinated. in france they started mandating that you had to have vaccines in other words to access cinemas, restaurants, any kind of transport you had to show proof of vaccine. and they saw an uptick in numbers of people because they had a high rate of vaccine hesitancy. after that, they had a surge of people wanting to get vaccinated. if you say you can't work here or travel or go to the cinemas, there are restrictions on your life if you don't get a vaccine, then it does seem to work. there are examples of it around the world working. it gets people over that hesitancy threshold. they're going to have to move something but if we still carry on with the people having the booster, those people being vaccinated, you'll have this split country with a pandemic against the unvaccinated and those vaccinated are okay. the goal is to keep people out of hospital or stop positive cases? at the moment, the vaccines are

keeping people out of hospital. that's the question that the w.h.o. and other countries have should america be giving this booster now when people are still being kept out of hospital when there are so many people around the world who haven't had a chance to have their first shot. let's bring in dr. peter hotez dean at baylor college of medicine. he also is the author of the book, preventing the next pandemic. doctor, good morning, it's great to have you with us. let's start with the booster, something you and other experts have said was coming. what have we learned about this virus and vaccine that requires a booster shot at this point? >> what we're seeing, willie, is a decline in effectiveness of the vaccine and a lot of the studies out of israel, one out of the mayo clinic showing against infection the

effectiveness of the vaccine has gone down from 90% to 40 to 50%. so far keeping up well in terms of keeping people out of the hospital but i think the worry is that with that decline from 90 to 40%, which is a significant decline, that's the tip of the spear and we'll start seeing a precipitous rise in hospitalizations among vaccinated individuals. we're hearing anecdotes from physicians that 10, 20% of their hospitalized patients are vaccinated. so it's not too surprising, given the fact when we rolled out these vaccines they were only given a three to four week interval between the first and second dose, that's how the phase three trials were done. that was done for a good reason, if you remember back in december, january, we were losing 3,000 american lives a day and there was a crisis. so we had to get people fully immunized in as quick a time as possible and it made sense and saved lives. the trade off was by doing that

short interval, three to four weeks you get a decline in length of protection. so you had the idea this was going to be a three immunization vaccine. >> we have a large population in the country, people under 12, children, not eligible for the first shot of the vaccine. you've been sounding the alarm what may be ahead this fall because of that. what should we expect as we look toward the school year? some of the country is back to school, a lot of it is not yet. what do you see on the road ahead? >> right here in the south where i am, tling things are looking pretty grim. before school has opened, for instance, houston independent school district opens next week, we're seeing a lot of kids and adolescents and young people go into the hospital and even pediatric intensive care units which we've never seen before and the fact a lot of the executive leaders of state here

have blocked any kind of mask mandates and nobody is talking about a vaccine mandate for the 12 and up, which is ridiculous, of course, we should do that. we've really set up our kids to fail. we're already seeing schools open saying just ignore all that stuff we're going to be fine and we close up a few days later because there's covid. i don't see how anything goes differently in the south. nobody put policies in place to ensure our kids could get in-person learning and all they did was say no mandates without putting policy in place. >> how far are we from the vaccine for children 12 and under? >> i think we'll definitely head there later in the fall. i don't know that we'll have it by the end of this year. i'm hoping we do. and that will make things a little easier as well. but again, if you look here in the south, fewer than 25% of the

adolescents -- or 12 to 17-year-olds have been vaccinated. i imagine among the younger kids it's going to be worse. so none of the adolescents are vaccinated here in the southern united states. it's the whole southern part of the united states is in defiance against vaccines and it's having a self-defeating effect. >> dr. peter hotez, great to have you in the show, thanks so much. david, facts don't seem to matter to a lot of people i talk to here. you can listen to them talking about vaccine mandates, it's un-american, unconstitutional, this is not who we are, you then remind them they had five or six vaccine mandates before they were allowed to go to school, remind them their children, all four or five of their children, had five or six vaccines, and

they had to have their vaccine, quote, passports to get into school. again, you just wonder why we just don't do that as a country? we've done it time and again. i'm just curious about what you're hearing about the military and its requirement, because i have a good example of a family who's vaccine hesitant, they're from the south, they're trump supporters and there's one member of the family who had a vaccine and he's in the united states military. and there was a lot of squawking beforehand and i'm going to quit -- oh, i have to get it. okay. he got the vaccine because as a lot of other vets will tell you they had to get a ton of vaccines before they went overseas. so i'm wondering about the pentagon rollout and if that isn't a good example for this government to take with the rest of the country? >> joe, i share your view that

mandating vaccine use is just the basics of public health. we do it for children with polio, with mumps, with measles. for the longest time the military was reluctant to mandate vaccination. i can remember talking with commanders in the heart of the battle space. and surprisingly small percentage of them were vaccinated. even though they were -- might be required to be vaccinated for anthrax which is a worse vaccination they were balking at being vaccinated for covid. that seems to be changing. if the military takes the lead, as so often happens in our country, other parts of society may follow along. the part to me, somehow resistance to vaccination got

tied up with our "don't tread on me," don't tread on me, vaccinate me, mask me, they became a way that was so detrimental to our health, i don't know how that happened. but our american character for so many people, especially in the south, middle south, decided i'm an american and i'm not going to get vaccinated. >> actually, doctors -- >> i'm sorry, willie, i'm going to say, we have, you know, for the republican party, for conservatives, there's always been the individual and the state and this give and take between the individual and the state. conservatives believing that the state should be smaller, individual rights should be stronger. but over the past 20, 30 years

we have seen this hyper individualism move to such a degree that there's no balance. there's no balance between being an individual with freedoms, guaranteed by the constitution, and being selfish. and this hyper individualism we see it in every phase of the american debate. and it is making everyone focus on themselves individually. you can say that also parts of the liberal left as well. there is still -- there still is an american community that -- means out of many one. well, we have everybody hyper focused on the many. i'm one of 320 million. we're just not getting to the second part of that where out of

many, one. and that hyper individualism really doesn't work when you're talking about a pandemic and when you're talking about public health and when you're talking about what you're doing by not getting a vaccination because of some ill conceived view on hyper individualism and getting bad information day after day after day on these vaccines, what you're doing is you're letting down your community, you're letting down your country, you're letting down your friends, your neighbors, because those friends and neighbors who may need to go to the hospital, who may need to go to the emergency room, may need to get a bed in icu. across a lot of the states i grew up in, georgia, alabama, mississippi, northwest florida, those icu beds are full and they're filled with unvaccinated americans. so this lie, this lie that is

bred by hyper individualism, i can do what i want to do and it doesn't affect anybody but me. it's just not true. it's affecting your neighbors, it's affecting your community, it's affecting your friends and loved ones who are sick who need to go to the hospital. they can't, in many cases, because the icu beds and the emergency rooms are jam packed with unvaccinated americans. >> and the case leaders have tried to make, not just government or health officials, is actually the vaccination and masks are the path to freedom, contrary to the argument they're bridging your freedom, if we get through this, you get back to work, kids get back to school, all the things you want to be doing but as you said many times, those arguments, even from people who are trusted are drowned out by what they see, a

lot of garbage online and a lot of what they hear on television and on the radio. we'll put some of these questions to the united states surgeon general, vivek murthy as the biden administration pushes new strategies to get americans vaccinated against coronavirus. but first bill karins has a check on some severe weather. good morning, what are you looking at? >> good morning the headline is new england has a chance to get hit by a hurricane on sunday for the first time in 30 years. it's not etched in stone but it's a possibility. first, we're dealing with what's left of fred, heavy rain in the northeast and new england. the morning commute is going to be slow because the of the rain. there is flooding near syracuse and courtland and utica. could see flash flooding in areas of vermont and new hampshire during the day. and then this all will be exiting this evening. let's get to henri, the storm is

over the waters of the atlantic, between bermuda and florida. winds at 70 miles per hour so it's almost a hurricane. this is the new forecast from the national hurricane service. on sunday coming close to nantucket, cape cod, martha's vineyard, they have it going up to a category 1 saturday to sunday and then weakening as it approaches areas close to new england. boston, courtland and the coast of maine is in the way. these are our computer models showing us where they think the storm is going to go. some into rhode island and connecticut. a few of them over areas like nantucket, we'll watch it closely in the days ahead. only three days away from the possibility of a hurricane hitting new england. last one by the way, 1991, hurricane bob. that was a long time ago. what a beautiful sun rise this

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>> goes to first, grounded, in the hole, grounding stop, gets him at first. got past the diving somehow velasquez made the play and the yankees hold on to win 5-2. >> i'm sorry. >> a little magic in the bronx last night, joe. >> i missed that, what? i'm sorry. >> let's get the papers down, dialled in here. >> i was just looking at my

fantasy football league for premier league football with baseball season over, willie, i hope we can play more clips of liverpool. lemire and i have figured out season's over. but there's some people still watching, talk about yesterday. >> so the play you saw there was andrew velasquez, a native of the bronx, here he is at the plate getting a hit to get the yankees a lead over the red sox. and the yankees win again last night. so they now are alone atop the wild card standings. an incredible -- there's the play by velasquez from the bronx. so they are alone, the a's also lost last night. can you believe it, the new york yankees one game up on the a's

and red sox. now coming up the standings a little bit, the race are still strong but the yankees are there, and they're reenergized by the deals they made at the dead line. >> who told you this was happening? i told you this day was coming, did i not? >> you did. although you -- i would remind you you are tied to still be in the wild card. you are in the playoffs right now. i wouldn't despair too much. >> it's over. >> but the yankees are playing well, six in a row. >> we're the mudville red sox. there's no joy in boston. >> you know, there's something else going on we have to talk about on the west coast. shohei ohtani who has taken baseball by storm this year launching his 40th home run of the season last night in detroit. the first left-handed hitter in franchise history to reach 40 home runs passing reggie

jackson's total. and he then returned to the mound and completed eight dominant innings. he continues to build his case for the american league mvp award. who else could it be? he hits 40 home runs and shuts down the tigers. it's just -- it's never been done before. people talk about babe ruth, he did this for a while. no one is doing it at the level ohtani is doing it this year. >> to say we've never seen this before, certainly in our lifetime, is an understatement. nobody has seen it since i guess babe ruth was doing it in the teens and early '20s. but even babe ruth wasn't doing it at this level. it's an extraordinary achievement, every time the guy goes on the mound, swings his bat, and it's something that has energized baseball too. jack, who's a red sox fan, all year has been following ohtani,

and wanteds to be a pitcher and a good hitter now. it's really -- what a story for major league baseball. >> yeah, a great magnetic star. his jersey is the number one seller. what it takes to be a pitcher of that level in major league baseball is almost impossible and to be a hitter of that level simultaneously is impossible but he's doing it. coming up we'll turn to our story overseas, ed luce joins us with his latest piece, "afghanistan and the tragic verdict on post-9/11 america" when "morning joe" comes back. when "morning joe" comes back. if you have this... consider adding this. an aarp medicare supplement insurance plan from unitedhealthcare. medicare supplement plans help by paying some of what medicare doesn't... and let you see any doctor. any specialist. anywhere in the u.s. who accepts medicare patients.

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welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now wall street journal reporter jessica donati.

also with us u.s. national editor at the financial times, ed luce. ed, i want to start with your latest piece "afghanistan and the tragic verdict of post-9/11 america". you write, quote, rarely have so many lives and so much cash been spent on so little. it would be nice to think u.s. politics will learn from this debacle and both parties are complicit. but the story is far from over. america may have quit this forever war but it will go on. there will be little time for post mortems as we come to grips with the implications of a rebooted taliban. at each point in the post-9/11 story big u.s. decisions have be based on the ground, the ground in washington as it is. republicans picked iraq, democrats chose afghanistan for nation building. the split was settled by domestic politics.

the tragedy is history will continue with or without america. so ed, you call this a tragedy what's happening. no question these images we've seen the last four or five days are just that. what are the long-term and short-term implications of what's happening right now? >> well, i think the biggest concern, in addition to what happens inside afghanistan is the impact on pakistan which, of course, is a nuclear state which fostered the taliban in the 1990s. fostered its rise. it has undoubtedly been behind its resurgence in the last few weeks and months and sustaining it over the last 20 years. an increasingly taliban-ized pakistan is a deep concern, a national security concern for the united states but also one for its allies and partners in the region and europe. i think that if you look back at

the withdrawal from iraq in 2011, under the obama administration, the vacuum that left, which, of course, led to the rise of isis and then sucked the united states back into the region, into iraq and syria, is kind -- as a parallel, if anything, a better situation than what we face today. because iraq at least had a sovereign stable, semi-legitimate government. the afghan and taliban are not going to behave in the sort of international actor norms that we've seen from iraq. so i think the situation and the potential vacuum is worse. >> jessica, we've got a question for you from david ignatius. david? >> jessica, i want to ask you about "eagle down," your new book, and special forces fighting the forever war is your

title, sub title. tell us a little bit about what these wars have meant for the special forces? they bore the brunt of so much of the difficult fighting. do you think they've been permanently damaged? what do you think they're feeling now as they look at this tragic ending in afghanistan? >> i think the problem is that all of this was avoidable. in the special operations community it's well known that these soldiers have been all that has really held afghanistan together for the past few years and that's very much the subject of the book. i'm looking closely at what the soldiers have been doing on the ground, starting from the first operation, since then the soldiers have been constantly out there on the front lines, haven't received any credit or acknowledgement from the government and this has been frustrating for them for two reasons, one of them is because policies in washington have not

really reflected the realities that these people have experienced. and second of all, they're fighting a war that the rest of the nation knows nothing about. their families are increasingly isolated because in their day-to-day lives, the average american has no idea what their family members are doing, and widows often describe their husbands dying in wars that people barely know are still going on. >> david, quickly back to you. you went and looked at and reported on the special forces in syria who were holding back the iranians, who were holding back the syrians, who were holding back isis, who were holding back the russians, who were doing an extraordinary job with a small footprint and you had said they were all in. they believed in the their mission, and it was extraordinary what an incredible job they were doing.

but as, you know, as ed said, we have a democratic president pulling everybody out of iraq, isis goes in there, we have a republican president pulling these special forces doing an extraordinary job in syria with a light footprint out of there. now we have a democratic president pulling special forces and pulling these men and women out of afghanistan. people who were doing an extraordinary job with a light footprint, and -- are being yanked out and creating this devastaing void. >> joe, i think one of the lessons of this period, contrary to what we're feeling right now, is that the application of power through small, sustainable special forces missions, like what we saw in syria, in the northeast, where the special

forces were working with motivated allies took apart isis, just took it down. special forces working with the iraqi counterterrorism service took isis down in mosul, tough fighting. just a real battle. so we see the afghan military vanishing, not fighting but we had special forces in afghanistan, i'm sure jessica's book tells us that story, so we shouldn't lose sight of significant advances i think in our ability to project power with few people involved, relatively limited loss of life. there's many legaies of the period, to me that would be a positive one. >> for the past 20 years for the strategy that we have seen in the u.s. foreign policy, 20 years ago we thought we had to send 150,000, 200,000 troops into countries to maintain

order. now we're learning how to do it with a light footprint. the biggest problem is because of conditions on the ground in washington, as ed says, these light footprints, these small numbers of forces who are making a huge difference in pushing back the bad guys are being yanked out for political purposes. >> yeah. the argument about whether to leave or stay in afghanistan is a nuanced one. and there are valid arguments to be made on both sides of that. unfortunately we don't live in a time that allows for much nuance. everything is either black or white. you heard some of that in president biden's voice last night when he was, as you put it joe, pretty brittle in his defense of what he has done, really doubling down, he doesn't want to allow for any nuance and he doesn't want to hear, certainly not at the moment, the argument that leaving 2,500 or

4,000 residual forces in afghanistan could have held off the taliban for a while. ed when you hear to your argument about the credibility that this -- blow that this has been to the u.s., i've been really surprised by how outspoken political leaders are in germany and the uk and other places in europe about what a fiasco this has been. do you think it does, longer term and perhaps more broadly beyond afghanistan, it is a problem for the united states, the degree to which america's allies are not happy with thousand this has happened and how little they were consulted? >> if you remember, the only time nato has invoked article 5 was after 9/11 in support of the united states. and european allies stepped up then. there were 8,500 or so nato

troops left in afghanistan this summer who could have finished the mission, and some were keen on doing so, but it relied on american air support and the biden administration was not willing to discuss that with them and didn't give them heads up on the timing and nature of the withdraw. i think this is going to boost those in europe, including the french who are arguing for more european or french autonomy. it's not a great moment for the alliance and it is a pretty good moment for those seeking to undermine it. they don't see this america is back biden phrase as being anything more than hollow at this point. >> ed's new piece is in the financial times. thank you, ed. thank you jessica, jessica's book is "eagle down". still ahead on "morning joe," pressure growing for a

coordinated response to the humanitarian crisis unfolding in haiti. the latest on the slow moving relief effort following this weekend's massive earthquake. plus surgeon general vivek murthy joins the conversation at the top of the hour when "morning joe" comes right back. n "morning joe" comes right back find your rhythm. your happy place. find your breaking point. then break it. every emergen-c gives you a potent blend of nutrients so you can emerge your best

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welcome back to "morning joe," it's thursday, august 19th. we're looking at the white house, 7:00 a.m. on the east coast. obviously much is going to be going on inside the white house today. but you can bet the main focus is going to be cleaning up what's been happening in afghanistan and trying to maintain some bit of order around the airport. the sort of order they've had the past two days at least. katty kay is still with us and

we'll bring in msnbc contributor mike barnicle who i'm sure like me is thinking about putting the shutters up on the house, mike, and moving on beyond baseball season. >> yeah. it might be -- we're on the verge of having to put the storm windows down, joe. no doubt about it after last night. i was struck earlier when you and willie were talking about it. we have a shot at a wild card but the red sox have been playing really bad baseball now for nearly a month. so i've got the storm windows, i've got them cleaned, installed and everything like that, maybe by the end of the week i'll just put them down. >> you know, this is our worst run since, i can't remember, maybe it was 2012 where i think we went like 3 and 25 through the end of august and into september and one morning on this show after we lost to the yankees, willie, i'm sure you remember, i started on about an

11-minute rant and i just couldn't stop myself. so much for news that morning. let's try to do better today. willie, what are we looking at? i'm going to be mika this morning and cut you off right here. let's turn to the news. president biden says covid booster shots will be available for vaccinated americans starting in september, during an announcement yesterday, the president said an extra dose is the best way to protect from new variants. >> the plan is for adult to get a booster shot eight months after you got your second shot. pending approval from the food and drug administration, the cdc committee of outside experts will be ready to start this booster program through the week of september 20th. the threat of the delta virus remains real. but we are prepared, we have the tools, we can do this. >> the plan for boosters comes as health officials say, quote,

it is very clear that vaccine protection against infection wains over the time. president biden unveiled a new policy to curb the spread of coronavirus inside nursing homes. >> today i'm announcing a new step. if you work in a nursing home and serve people on medicare or medicaid, you will also be required to get vaccinated. with this announcement, i'm using the power of the federal government as a payer of health care costs to reduce those risks to our most vulnerable seniors. >> an administration official confirms to nbc news, the government will withhold federal funding from nursing homes that fail to fully vaccinate staff members, the new policy could take effect as soon as next month. hundreds of thousands of nursing home workers remain unvaccinated despite being the first in the country eligible for shots. joining us now, the surgeon

general of the united states dr. vivek murthy. it's great to have you with us this morning. let's go back a step and talk about the booster shots and why you think they're necessary. >> good morning, willie. yesterday we made an announcement that we plan to start offering booster shots on september 20th to people at their eighth month anniversary from their last shot. the reason this is so important is because what we've seen in the data. we've seen number one that your protection against the worst outcome, hospitalizations and deaths, if you get vaccinated still remain high but there's a protection against mild and moderate disease. that erosion, if it continues, may, in fact, mean that more people are at risk of hospitalization. we want to act ahead of the virus, we want to make this plan now so we can ensure protection from the vaccine is extended. and that's the goal of the booster program. >> as you say, i think most

doctors and public health experts like yourself saw this coming that there would be a need for the boosters. i'm sure you heard criticism from the w.h.o., particularly the chief scientist who said these are not necessary at this time, we should get the most vulnerable people around the world vaccinated before we start going into boosters. how do you answer that? >> well, look, i personally think it's incredibly important that we look not just at the united states but at the world and the administration believes that as well. we know this is a global pandemic. we know unless the world is vaccinated we will continue to see the development of new variants and that will affect us in the united states. i don't see this as a choice that we can afford to make between america and the world, we have to do both. but when we see evidence that immunity is waning, especially in the face of this dangerous delta variant, and when we are projecting, based on our best clinical judgment that it may

start to erode against hospitalizations and death in the future we have an obligation to act, to protect people here at home just as we have an obligation to continue accelerating our efforts to produce vaccines for the world and we will do both. >> doctor, how important is it for the administration and this country to continue to move forward with what the president talked about yesterday, requiring health care workers that work with seniors to be vaccinated, expanding that to health care workers in hospitals, to health care workers in doctors' offices, health care workers across america, how important is it that we move forward with policies that ultimately require that of everybody that's working in the health care field? >> joe, what you've seen in the last 24 hours alone is that as the president announced, the federal government is trying to do everything it can, in its power, to ensure that people get

vaccinated, including using requirements for federal workers and for entities funded by the federal government. we're going to continue to explore any path we can take to increase those vaccinations. i think what's going to be equally if not much more powerful joe is what we're seeing happening in the private sector which is more businesses, more universities, more health care systems on their own saying we want to make sure our work places are safe and our kids can learn in a safe environment that as health care workers we're protecting the patients we're fundamentally obligated to care for and that means ensuring that our people are vaccinated. you're seeing requirements put in place by the private sector as well and i think that trend is only going to continue, joe. >> mike barnicle is with us and has a question for you. >> doctor, booster shots, delta variants, other variants on the horizon, global epidemic, large parts of the globe unvaccinated,

is this our future? forever is a long time, but how long is this our future? >> mike, it's a really important question, and i know that we've been at this, as a country, as a world, for more than 18 months. i know people are tired, people are exhausted and there are people scared and wondering when is this going to end? while we can't 100% predict the future here's what we do know. we do know that when people are fully vaccinated, their level of protection is very, very high. their ability to get back to many of the aspects of their life that they love, to see family members and friends without worrying they're going to end up in the hospital or die because of covid is also reassuring. we know our pathway out of this and how quickly we can get to a point where we can return to normal depends on how quickly we get people vaccinated in the country. that's why you're seeing a push

to get vaccinations. but also why we have to look in our own circles, at our family and friends, and ask them if they are protected, vaccinated, if they're not, help them answer their questions, help them make an appointment or walk in somewhere to get vaccinated. finally, mike, let's consider this. we have to ensure that the learnings of covid don't get lost. that we are building this into our next pandemic plan for the future. because there will be another threat. the question is, how prepared will we be? that's where our effort is as well. we're working to respond to covid and we're working to prepare for the next pandemic in terms of manufacturing capacity, making sure our scientific institutions are in place and our local institutions are supported as well. >> katty kay is with us and has

a question. >> 13 million americans have got the j&j vaccine and nothing has been said in terms of a booster shot, and there's studies that suggest that the johnson & johnson vaccine is less effective against the delta variant. should people who got the j&j vaccine think they should add a dose of pfizer, frequent, in order to get some of the mrna technology in order to boost their immunity? >> i'm glad you asked about the j&j recipients, very important group of individuals. we want to make sure they're taken care of as well. we know the j&j vaccine was rolled out about 70 days after the mrna vaccines it's important because as far as immunity waning over time we know the vaccine rolled out later may mean we have more time from sort of the -- in terms of the reduction of protection over time. the second thing to know is that we do believe that it is very

possible and, in fact, likely that j&j recipients will need a boost. but the question is, at what time frame and also, with what vaccine? a j&j vaccine or an mrna vaccine. we're awaiting data from johnson & johnson, the company itself, about a two-dose regiment of j&j that will help us understand the safety and efficacy of the second dose. and we have what are called mixing studies under way, where you get one type of vaccine and another vaccine, including j&j and mrna mix so we can look at the effectiveness of that combination. and we'll make sure that data is evaluated and we'll get that recommendation with the recommendation to j&j recipients. we do not want anyone left behind regardless of what vaccine you got, that's why all three are going to be our priority. >> as you know better than

anyone, there's concern around children, 12 and under now going back to school, many places in the country already there, others filling up schools in the next couple of weeks. how should parents be thinking about this? we saw polling showing a majority of americans want masks in schools, they're okay with mask mandates to protect their kids. we have school districts fighting their governors on that issue. what should our viewers be thinking as school doors open with unvaccinated populations 12 and under and the delta variant spreading across the country? >> willie, this is a question close to my heart. i think of it not just as a surgeon general or a doctor but a parent myself. i have two small kids, they're not eligible for a vaccination so i want to do everything i can to make sure they're protected and safe. for parents with kids returning

to school right now, i know this is on their mind, here's what we know in terms of how you can keep your children safe. we know that masks work, number one they help to reduce the chances that you may get infection and spread infection. it's important that your child wear a mask and it's important that schools require masks for everyone, students, visitors, educators. in places that's not happening i am worried. there are other players of precaution that are important, too. we know that regular testing in schools is important. we know improved ventilation is important. we know that keeping your children home when they're sick and using distancing whenever possible, these measures work. and the billions of dollars provided to schools in the american rescue plan were intended for this purpose to help implement these precautions. it worries me to see localities and states blocking schools from putting these safety measures in place, especially masks. we should be doing everything in

the our power to protect our children. they are our most important asset. and to me it is morally indefensible to be withholding protective measures we know work when our children may be at risk. >> dr. vivek murthy, strong words for those republican governors. thank you so much. as we mentioned, school kids in mississippi, a state with a huge spike in cases now, more than 20,000 students are in quarantine from exposure to covid-19 wereman that 4,500 tested positive for the virus. in that state, just 36% of mississippi residents are fully vaccinated. joining us from the university of mississippi medical center, home to the state's only children's hospital, in jackson, mississippi. elson barber. good morning, you are looking at a new field hospital that has been erected there, unfortunately. >> reporter: yeah, i wanted to

show you exactly where we are. we are outside of a parking garage. you can see behind me -- a little bit behind me, you can see the nurses now arriving. this is the university of mississippi medical center's second field hospital. this is run and funded by samaritan's purse. it is only for adult covid patients they have over 30 beds this is not patients who have minor cases of covid-19. the beds here are icu beds and stepdown beds which is just a level below needing icu care. this is the state's premier hospital system and they are struggling to keep up with the surge of covid patients. the children's hospital is struggling as well. as you said, this is the state's only children's hospital and when i spoke to a pediatrician here they told me the numbers they're seeing of children admitted with acute cases of covid-19 is astounding. they're also seeing a rise in patients, children, having that

secondary rare inflammatory syndrome, m.i.s.c. we spoke to the parents of a child who is in the hospital right now because of covid-19. he is 11 years old. his name is donovan evans. he's asthmatic. his parents said they kept him home most of the summer because they were worried about the numbers they see here, the rise in covid cases and the low rate of vaccination. next month they were planning to get him vaccinated as soon as he turned 12. he went back to school the other week, they say he wore a mask, for other students and teachers masks were optional and they believe he caught covid-19 on the school bus or classroom. >> next month he would have been old enough, september 22nd. >> the school failed us. we spoke with the principal and he act like he had no clue and my son come home crying and

boo-hooing, talk about he doesn't want to go back to school. he doesn't want to get on the bus because the bus is overpopulated. >> you don't know if he going to wake out of a sleep, what going to happen. he taking shots in his stomach to prevent blood clots. he has to get them twice a day. he on steroids, he do breathing treatment. he do iv. they just started him on antibiotics. so it's a lot for an 11-year-old to go through, laying in bed and just wondering is i'm gonna make it the next hour? >> being honest i can be, i never thought it would got to my son, but he's human. i feel like anybody else on this earth is human. and it could happen to your child, to you, to anyone. so my advice to anyone and everyone, take precaution and

take care of your kids and yourself by wearing your masks and get the vaccination. >> reporter: one thing one of the pediatricians we spoke to kept emphasizing saying the number of childrens being hospitalized are not that high people say, but she said every one of those cases is preventable. one child's death is too much but in this situation they know that masks would prevent this and they're not required in the school. so every number you see, particularly related to children hospitalized or dying, every one of those are preventable. >> as you say, more than 20,000 students after the first week of school in mississippi are in quarantine. that's about 5% of the school population in mississippi. elson barber in jackson, mississippi for us this morning. thank you so much. let's talk about the misinformation leading to these low vaccination rates in states

like mississippi. facebook founder mark zuckerberg is defending his site. >> if we see harmful misinformation on the platform then we take it down, it's against our policy. do we catch everything? of course, there are mistakes we make or areas we need to improve. we have millions of people have used our vaccine finder tools to take their step towards getting the vaccine and hundreds of millions of people have visited and -- in the u.s. and other places have visited the coronavirus information hub to get authoritative information about this. >> mark zuckerberg speaking with gayle king there. he said facebook has removed 18 million posts containing misinformation about covid-19 but would not say, when asked, how many times those posts have been viewed or shared. last month president biden

insisted facebook and other platforms were, quote, killing people by allowing misinformation to spread. the president later walked back that remark a bit, joe. >> mike barnicle, he can point to positive things that have happened with facebook. but you and i both know that ms. information continues to spread there. plandemic, a complete scam, i spent a year, year and a half talking to loved ones, a year about plandemic saying it was all a lie, it was a conspiracy theory and now conspiracy theories are spreading around about the vaccine on facebook, about the masks on facebook. and the misinformation, disinformation is there. so maybe they've spent some time fighting it but certainly not enough. their algorithms still encourage the most controversial, craziest

posts to share. and they just simply are not putting a big enough investment into getting more people to scan their own website to find this information that, yes, joe biden had to take it back, we won't, that is killing americans. >> joe, we will cover and talk about no sadder story than the story we're talking about right now. those children in mississippi, mississippi is led by a governor who refuses to acknowledge, really, the extent of the dangers involved in covid. there are other governors that we know of, that we've spoken about each and every day, and the root of so much of this, the root of children being in pediatric units now, struggling, getting oxygen in order to live because they have a -- have been hit by the variant.

the roots of the misinformation, you're right, it's facebook. i'm not on facebook. but a friend of mine, who i've known for a long time, is on facebook. and i no longer know this person because he has been so victimized by the level of misinformation that he's been absorbing each and every day now for over a year about the variants, about the virus, about the vaccinations, i no longer know this person, he's a captive to the information. the information and misinformation that we reads each and every day is addictive and supports his crazy, crazy theories about the dangers of the vaccination. you multiply that by hundreds of millions of all people in this country and around the world, and facebook is an active accomplice in the rising scale of fear and deaths due to the

virus. there's no doubt about it, none, zero. no matter what mark zuckerberg says. none. >> caller: yea -- >> yeah and willie from "the washington post" last month, one conspiracy theory circulating is that the coronavirus vaccines will be used to embed micro chips in the arms of americans. 20% of u.s. adults believed the chip falsehood was probably or definitely true from a poll. you can go through just search it on your google machine and you can see the misinformation is still spreading every day on facebook and youtube. americans are believing it, sharing it and facebook and youtube aren't spending enough of their resources, they make billions and billions of dollars, and they're not making

the investment into getting enough fact checkers online to stop this information, this disinformation that's killing americans and that's perhaps the greatest threat to american democracy right now with the misinformation being spread around. they're not spending the money required to stop this disinformation dead in its tracks. >> the story mike told about his friend is one i think most people in the country can relate to. you know somebody you love, someone you care about, trust, someone you think is smart, someone you've known for a long time who comes to you with whether it's about covid or the election and they want to talk to you about satellites in italy or something changing the voting machines and you look and go what are you talking about? there's an entire parallel universe that's propped up by leaders, political leaders and cable news hosts and others who give validation to those arguments, they are out there. and as you say, facebook is the

leading proprietor of this stuff. crews are struggling to get aid to haiti following saturday's deadly earthquake and tropical storm. we'll have a report from the hard hit island nation next on "morning joe." nation next on "morning joe." wondering what actually goes into your multivitamin? at new chapter, its' innovation, organic ingredients, and fermentation. fermentation? yes. formulated to help you body really truly absorb the natural goodness. new chapter. wellness, well done.

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better parents... and better friends. no! no! that's why comcast works around the clock constantly improving america's largest gig-speed broadband network. and just doubled the capacity here. how do things look on your end? -perfect! because we're building a better network every single day. welcome back to "morning joe," a u.s. navy warship is now on its way to haiti to help in the recovery there. the humanitarian crisis is growing as crews struggle to bring relief to the survivors of saturday's deadly earthquake. >> reporter: these are the first patients rescued days after the earthquake. this child clinging to an aide worker has a critical head injury. one by one they're brought off this chopper, patient after patient, over and over again.

they're coming from the most remote regions that had no access to medical care for days. help is pouring into haiti but with landslides cutting off access to roads to deliver supplies to those who need it most. now the u.s. army is on the way, headed to the hardest hit regions, a place where hospitals are overwhelmed. >> why is it important for you to be here? >> it's very important. nobody has been to see the patients and it's been five days now. >> reporter: felicia gray flew in from alaska one of many volunteering to help. >> it's always an agent need. >> reporter: world central kitchen responding -- >> we'll be here as long as we need to be. >> reporter: the damage here likely in the billions of

dollars, the true cost might never be known. >> gabe gutierrez reporting to us. two officials being treated aboard from germany are being treated for symptoms for what is known as havana syndrome. the disease is thought to be connected to the russian government but that has not been confirmed. the wall street journal said the embassy in berlin has said it's a hoax. the symptoms first surfaced in 2015 in cuba but has since been reported across the globe. this raises concerns about the vulnerability of americans working overseas even in allied countries. next here on "morning joe," our guest lays out what he sees as the greatest threat to american democracy. "morning joe" is coming right back. ng joe" is coming right back

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♪ call one eight hundred, eight million ♪ welcome back to "morning joe." 7:35 in the morning on a thursday here on the east coast. joining us now national security expert columnist at "usa today," tom nichols. good morning in your book you write about america's embrace of liberalism writing, quote, these assaults on democratic norms as we will see are coming from populations whose anger is rooted far more in notional injustices and imagined dangers than in actual harms. they are not the disenfranchised

african-americans on the 1950s seeking to attend school without being murdered. instead the threat to democracy now in america and elsewhere comes from the working and middle classes the people among whom i was born and raised whose rage comes from cultural insecurity, inflated expectations, tribal partisan alliances, obsessions about ethnicity, blunted ambition and a child like understanding of the limits of government. why are people who are already free and materially and politically better off than those in more repressive states attacking their own government. we are losing because we won. we are suffering because we are successful. we are unhappy because we have what we want. joe? >> tom, you and i were members of the same party, a party that over the past 40 years wallowed in victimhood.

we see a lot of victimhood from the woke people on the far left. but i think you and i have both said it, the right has wallowed in victimhood for decades and everything was an attack against us whether it was from washington or hollywood or, you know, fill in the blanks. but you talk about working class and middle class. what i'm finding and other friends of mine are finding is even people who are extremely successful, who have advanced degrees, who are attorneys, you can engage in conversation with them and they're brilliant and you get them talking about politics, trump or covid, our democracy, western democracy, and their iq plummets like 50 points and they start rattling off conspiracy theories from

websites without of china or some other nether region. >>. >> you know, joe, i wish i could just blame it on the internet putting it all on steroids. and the internet and social media and, you know, all the things that willie and mike were just talking about, for example, those are all serious problems. but if you really look at where all this begins, it begins about 40 or 50 years ago, sometime in the early '70s. and the underlying condition for all of this is the real pandemic which is narcissism, which has been going on for 40 or 50 years now. and that's where the sense of grievance and victimhood and entitlement comes from. as i say in the book, none of this is to deny, there are real problems in america. there are people -- there are always people in a capitalist

economy that are suffering, need taken care of. but what's remarkable about this is reasonably well off people think of themselves as victims. and the key point is they think it's because democracy has failed. it's not because of any one bad policy or any one politician or policy that they hate. they say, this whole system has completely failed me because it didn't give me what i want. >> you know, tom, the lie that we've told ourselves, you talk about starting in the 1970s, is we're always in decline. i remember a teacher in 1975, 1976 saying we're going the way of the roman empire. if you look at the past 10, 15 years. and, you know, about a year or two ago, i said this before because i'm a dork, i want to see what the gdp is in the

united states and other countries in the past 60 years. every country up and down, doesn't matter if it's a republican or democrat in office, america's gdp just keeps skyrocketing. these people that talk about things being worse than ever before hold in their hands processing -- computer processing that would have had to fill like a city block, you would have had to have a city block of buildings 10 stories high with super computers jammed in there just to do the processing that everybody carries in their hands. we did a vaccine in a year's time that people thought would take five, six, seven, ten years if we ever got it. we don't like to say this, but in many ways, these are the best of times, and yet we're just looking down this rabbit hole and trying to find, doesn't matter again who's in office, the worst conspiracy theories to talk about how the end is near

for the united states of america. it just isn't. >> joe, this show has made my bad takes about music legendary and a national thing. but in the book i have a whole section on decline rock that we -- because we live now -- we say this is the worst time ever. i said, look, if that's true, then it was the worst time ever in 1975 and then again in 1985. if you look at the popular culture, the messages from, you know -- i talk about bruce sprin springsteen talks about his down dying three different years. the brits talk about how england was dead and on the ropes 35 years ago. it's something we do, we want to believe things are not our fault

and things are so terrible and we would do better and wouldn't have to be so angry if things weren't so awful all the time. every age has its advantages and disadvantages. but the notion that somehow in 2021 when we're living longer, healthier, the world is mostly at peace, whether people want to believe that or not, it's true. people want to believe this is the worst time ever. and it's a poisonous nostalgia that looks back and there's no way a democratic government can keep up with that unless they can invent a time machine. >> willie has a question, tom. >> tom, how do you balance this argument, which is really well made in the book, and people should check it out, with the reality that for a lot of people who supported donald trump, they saw something they thought maybe they could turn around their lives. which is to say you don't want to diminish what a lot of people

are going through in this country. a lot of people who have seen their towns disintegrate and have these their jobs go away. those are not to be dismissed because they supported a candidate who you may not like. so how do you balance those two things? >> first, i should say, i grew up in a town like that. i write about that in the book. i do not come from privileged family, my parents were depression-era high school dropouts. i grew up among factories that by the time i was a child were empty and rotting. i played in abandoned -- with abandoned equipment and empty factors and coal yards and railroad trestles. i write about that this morning in "usa today," there are two things about that. a lot of that happened before people were willing to admit that happened.

i talked to a friend in a book and said i remember when all those factories were full. i said that was impossible we broke the windows in that factory when we were 11, like 50 years ago. people have convinced themselves there was once this golden age they remember that was only taken away in the last few years. the other is, these are real problems and dislocations but that doesn't mean the constitutional system of democracy, of universal human rights of tolerance and secular government has somehow failed us. bad policy is not the same thing as a complete failure of democracy. i think a lot of those propaganda sites and opportunistic politicians, many on the right and more than a few on the left unfortunately and across the world, by the way, this is not an american problem solely, have convinced people that the only answer is to blow up the system and to put people

like themselves in charge to tell the rest of us that democracy is over and that we need to live in an ill liberal and authoritarian government. >> katty kay has a question for you, tom. >> hi, tom. let's talk about the demographics and racial changes in america and how that plays into this. we know the country is becoming less white, probably faster than we realized. to what extent is that feeding this sense of nostalgia amongst certain groups of the population? particularly amongst white men who benefitted when it was white men who were running the show unquestionably? is it overly simplistic to say that's driving some of the people out there saying things aren't as good for me as they used to be? >> no. i think that's directly a cause of a lot of this. and, you know, i -- i've -- again, there are some of these

stories from my own hometown where people that i grew up with who are now prosperous. i had a friend who, you know, working class guy i went to school with since we were small children, spends his weekends on his boat, and he says everything is changed, it's awful. what he means is the street we grew up on, we had a neighborhood barber, candy store and diner, and one of them is an antique shop now, another is a spanish store front church, and the library is closed. we just wants it to be -- it's like a mid-life crisis for a lot of white males for whom they want it to be 1969 again. i think that that -- that problem of becoming a minority is really anxiety producing for a lot of them. but again, the answer to that is more democracy, not some kind of

ill liberal backlash and trying to turn the clock back by force. but they've been told by politicians and political entrepreneurs that with just enough will power and rage and anger and resentment they can turn the hands of time back and, you know, make it 1965 again. >> mike barnicle? >> so, tom, i know your hometown and it's very similar to my hometown. and i think both of us grew up without a lot of wealth. but we grew up on streets in neighborhoods where we were never alone and we were never without hope. so what has happened in the intervening years to create so much hopelessness, so much loneliness. so much of a sense that now as americans in the nation of 325 million people, we are all walking alone?

what happened? >>, you know, that's a great point, mike. no matter how bad things were -- i did not feel a lot of sense of hope as a boy, as i point out in the piece this morning. my early teenage years could easily have ended up in jail. that was probably a more -- >> me too. >> -- likely path. the path to jail was clearer and easier than it was to college, that's for sure. >> yeah. >> but you were right, we were never alone. what's really striking. i talk about this in the book. we have become some of the lonelyiest people in the world because we've chosen to. because the solitary leisure of -- that we can just have at our finger tips because of this immense standard of living that we enjoy has really made us kind of a nation of solitary loners. if you want to play blackjack, you don't have to go to a casino. you can open your phone and get a blackjack table. if you want to watch a movie,

you can call up any movie you want on your television. one of my friends actually had a great observation that hadn't occurred to me. he said when we grew up, mike, when people like you and i grew up, everybody

50% of the world's industrial output was blown to pieces during world war ii. so, obviously, that wasn't going to be sustainable in japan, germany, other countries. we built their countries. >> yeah, it's interesting that there was an excerpt from the book about a week ago in the "atlantic" and you know make

will smile i think because he knows my hometown. someone from my hometown who had grown up there in the early '60s wrote to me. he said, i know, i'm a little older than you. he says, yeah, i seem to remember it as really a kind of a good time. of course, he had grown up in the 1950s and early '60s, graduated from college in 1965 and i said, you know, that 15 years in america was a unique time. but as i pointed out to him. and i said, you know, boat my brother and my father were comes. i set said, i know it was a good time for you. i don't know if i wanted to be a black man dealing with my hometown cops. i don't know i wanted to be a woman who had to ask for permission to get a car loan. you know in 1962. we have this very selective memory about what was great about it.

well, i had a union job. well, yes, but there, you know, there were a lot of other terrible things going on that you've kind of strained out of your memory. i think anyone who is nostalgic for the 1970s, i talk about this in the book, people set fine 70s as a benchmark. i was a teenager in the nanny 70s. can i not imagine a decade i would rather not go back to in my hometown and the way i grew up. but people have, you know, sanitized these memories and turned them into cepiatone photographs if their minds that aren't true. >> it's a deep conversation that gets to the heart of where we are as a country. we will continue with you very soon, i am sure. our new book is our own worst enemy, the assault from within on modern democracy. we'll see you soon. we want to end the hour with a story for the first time since the start of the pandemic, vet rarns and tear care givers are now able to visit washington,

thanks to a special flight to the country. leicester holt has the story. >> it looks like a fun day, i got up at 1:00 to get out here. >> reporter: 112 veterans boarded a chartered flight to washington, d.c., where they spent the day. this moment, almost 16 months in the making, the first honor flight since the pandemic. three veterans from world war ii, 33 from the korean war. and 76 from the vietnam war were recognized. curtis bentley who served in the navy during world war ii. >> i never soon this, it's real to be here today. >> reporter: bentley and the other 111 vets visited the world war ii, lincoln, korean, and vietnam memorials. >> i it was a real honor.

i'll never forget this. never. >> reporter: but for some of them, it was more about meeting another veterans and sharing stories. >> there is actual lay healing effect with them getting together with fellow veterans that have experienced the same situations. >> reporter: heroes returning home tonight after seeing the memorials built in there honor for their sacrifice and for our freedom. >> willie, that is a beautiful sight and so great these honor flights have started again. >> it is. they have been going on some time. they had to be paused, obviously, during the pandemic. those are great moments. when i'm in washington, i have to make time to walk that stretch of the mall. we have done such a beautiful job with the country with those memorials to honor those great men and women we saw there. still ahead on "morning joe", president biden doubling down on his defense from the american exit from afghanistanful we'll show you what he is saying from the

chaotic scenes in kabul. "morning joe" is coming right back.

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. the reason most people in america don't worry about polio, smallpox, measles or mumps or rubella today is because of vaccines. the threat of the delta virus remains real. but we are prepared. we have the tools. we can do this. >> that was president biden tripling down on vaccines, pushing for a third shot to protect americans from covid-19. good morning, welcome to "morning joe." it's thursday, august 19th. mika has the morning off. willie, a lot in the news as usual. >> absolutely. in addition to covid-19, president biden is reiterating his defense of his decision to

withdraw american troops from afghanistan. in a new interview with abc news, the president argues some of the chaos we've seen was inevitable, adding troops will stay in afghanistan until all american civilians are out of the country. we have a pair of roar, first from nbc's kelly o'donnell and richard engel in kabul. >> reporter: a chilling assessment, the u.s. military does not have sufficient forces to rescue americans who cannot get to the kabul airport evacuation point. >> we don't have the capability to check large numbers of people. >> reporter: the u.s. is relying on the taliban to let americans and afghan allies pass through checkpoints to reach the airport or risk the journey. in an interview with abc news, president biden said he knew chaos was inevitable. >> we look back insight to look. but the idea that somehow there is a way to have gotten out without chaos ensuing. i don't know how that happens.

>> reporter: the pentagon says the pace of evacuations is improving, but not adequate. the president said, if necessary, troops would remain beyond the august 31st withdrawal deadline. >> if there is american citizens left, we will stay until we get them all out. >> reporter: the administration says u.s. intelligence consistently identify the risk of a rapid collapse. but general milley insisted, those predictions were for weeks or months. >> it was nothing that i or anyone else saw that indicated a collapse of this army and this government in 11 days. >> reporter: the u.s.-led evacuation is finally moving quickly and smoothly from the military side of kabul airport. planes arriving and departing around the clock. it's a far cry from the bedlam they clung on to departing aircraft. now, more american troops have

been brought in for security. today, we watched traps get ready for a patrol. they're relaxed. the u.s. forces may be doing this for several days or even weeks. >> we met with no visas. >> okay. i will give you tomorrow, the day after tomorrow, so, they didn't. >> reporter: they met with a state department official who says they're working on getting flights for them and the others who work on the base, along with their families. we saw hundreds of afghans being processed. waiting to start new but still uncertain lives. while this base is much more orderly, much more secure, the biggest problem is getting here. >> because outside the perimeter, the taliban are in control. the u.s. military asked them to keep back the crowds. but the taliban are doing iter that way. firing in the air, sometimes beating afghans who try to approach. in jalalabad, afghans

demonstrated carrying the tricolored flag, saying it represents them, no in the taliban flag. witnesses say the taliban opened fire, killing at least three demonstrators. afghanistan's new presumptive leader arrived in the country, moving through the taliban stronghold city of kandahar. he was the deputy leader of the taliban when it hosted and protected osama bin laden while he plotted 9/11. former secretary of state mike pompeo signed a peace deal with him under president trump. a deal president biden implemented, rapidly pulling out american troops, triggering the rapid collapse of the afghan army. and the taliban's rapid takeover. richard engle, nbc news, kabul. let's go to the white house and bring in nbc nassau correspondent josh letterman. so, josh, you heard the president tell george stephanopoulos yesterday that americans would stay in afghanistan as long as it took to get every american out of

that country, even if it means staying longer than the august 31st deadline. we did get an update of how many people have been evacuated by the united states us the far. how many is it? how far do we have to go here? >> according to white house in the most recent 24-hour period, they were able to get out 1,800 people that brings the total since august 14th to 6,000 people. they have been able to evacuate. so they're getting up to speed on now several thousand per day. that's still short of what president biden and other officials have spoken about in terms of being able to get out 5,000 people a day or even more possibly, 7,000 a day, president biden told george stephanopoulos. officials acknowledge this is really an hour-to-hour situation and their ability to be able to do this really rests on mr. they're going to get continued cooperation from the taliban to let folks to the airport for these evacuations. because as you heard from richard engel's report there, there have been sporadic

incidents. it's been difficult to figure out exactly minute-to-minute whether people are able to make safe pass annual to the airport. the u.s. military clearly unable to really take on that task in addition to securing the airport and running those evacuation flights amid all of this, you know, kochting questions about how people are supposed to get to kabul if they're in other parts of the country where e from which they need to be evacuated. so that is all on table as the administration tries to ramp up this effort. they have still facing increasing questions and concerns from capitol hill. republicans now demanding a classified briefing for the gang of eight. the president, he is here at the white house. we do expect at 10:00 a.m., he will meet with the national security team to get an update, not only on the military aspects on the ground in kabul, the political and diplomatic angles of what the u.s. is continuing to try to do with the taliban now firmly in control of

afghanistan. we do not expect the president to make any remarks during that meeting. so it's possible, we may not hear from him today on afghanistan, willie. >> as you say, it's difficult to get those people who want to evacuate to kabul, given the fact the country is completely under taliban control right now. joe, we saw yesterday again president biden defiant and defensive of his policy and the decisions he's made despite what we've seen of the last four days. >> right. a and the line that stuck out to a lot of people who watched that, was when he said chaos was inevitable a. lot of people in the intel-community are suggesting otherwise. let's bring if the washington editor katty kay an columnist and associate editor for the washington posted david ignacious. david, talk about that chaos was inevitable line from the stephanopoulos interview yesterday and really the intel community's reaction to that. there seems to be a back and forth between the intel and the

doe right now and everybody i have spoken with in the intel-community over the last three days say, no way, we're not going to be blamed for something that we have been warning about all along. >> well, joe, chaos is inevitable. if you start late and don't devote sufficient resources and you have a chaotic situation, we're seeing a classic demonstration now of what the military power can and cannot do once you've pulled out of a garrisson you have heavily maintained. the military after a day is able keep order, keep orderly flow of planes and people. in the military side of the airport. but when we talk about the gates and outside the gates, the reinvasion of afghanistan and it's not surprising that general milley and secretary of defense austin say that's just not

possible. they are not in a position to reinvent the country and guarantee the safe access were. my sense as i talked to people in the white house, watched these people on tv. they are shell shocked. this is a kind of defeat of a level of reversal that these folks have never known in their lives. these are people who never have gotten, you know, a bad grade in school and suddenly they find the world collapsing around them. i think it's been really difficult for them that to deal with us. it's overwhelmed every other issue for the white house and you calm and ask to any other thing that was in process or being planned and know the focus right now is on afghanistan, period. i this i that they hope that, you know, the process of getting people out, a kind of airlift. plane after plane, running the shuttling down the runway and carrying people to freedom will

give them some of their taste. one issue that they're struggling with is where are these people going to go on any long-term basis. they're trying to get allies to agree to take larger number of afghan refugees. they're getting pushback on that from a lot of our closest allies, who do basically say, this isn't our problem. it is a limited thing we can do. we have domestic political problems. we take too many afghans, certainly to an era. so it's been a pain. you can sea it with president biden, this defensiveness, almost brittleness. he is trying to talk tough the buck stops here, chaos was baked in. sort of a firm presidential lines of leadership. but even within the white house, the people wish he was being more compassionate. speaking more to the human suffering that he's seeing around them to the toughness and resoluteness of his own decision-making. >> catty, more than a strategic loss militarily, what i'm

hearing from elected leaders here, foreign lead, across the globe, diplomats, foreign policy leaders in washington and again across the world is that this is more than a strategic defeat for the united states, it is diplomatic defeat. it's a reputational deal. then i had one leader from the middle east yesterday who had very little use for donald trump's presidency, the chaos that that brought. but saying, you know, asking me, do i really think that we are thinking america is back? do you really think that this, that america's reputation is any better now than it was one year ago making reference to when donald trump was in office, suggesting that the united states' reputation has suffered yet again.

i'll use a word, a catastrophic blow globally among our allies. >> what a change from june in that g-7 meeting, right, joe, when there was a triumphant reentry into the world with joe biden. he was welcomed with open arms. nato at the g-7 in cornwall. they were all delighted to see biden back and america back in the game and what you are hearing totally publicly now from allies right across europe, mps in the uk, conservative mps standing up in parliament saying they are ashamed that the u.s. commander in chief is blaming afghans, some of whom they fought alongside, not taking blame tore this, himself, really disparaging comments in public from other nato allies about the u.s. performance here. i think more broadly, the concern is and i have lived here for a long time and to some extent, i have always bought the

argument, that the u.s. intelligence community military performance, national security operation at large could do what it needed to do around the world, it was defective. but it was powerful, that it was competent and i think for those of us who believe that the world is better off when america is strong and healthy and engaged to see the level of incompetence that we saw in the very first stages of this operation was really worrying, because if they got that so wrong, what else might they get wrong around world? >> still ahead, the biden administration is using new strategies to fight coronavirus, including new vaccine mandates and a push for booster shots. you are watching "morning joe." we'll be right back.

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. with the delta variant, stunting progress against the pandemic. the biden administration is employing new strategies to fight the virus like encouraging booster shots for most vaccinated americans and now mandating vaccines for nursing home staff. nbc news correspondent miguel almaguer has the latest. >> reporter: making it official, the first booster shots for the general public will go into arms september 20th after the fda and cdc sign off, most adults fully vaccinated for at least eight months will qualify a. top priority, protecting healthcare workers, nursing home residence and seniors who were vaccinated

first. the booster shot, a third dose of the same formula and vaccine for those fully inoculated with pfizer or moderna. >> it will be ease to show your vaccination card, you will get a booster. >> reporter: for those vaccinated with johnson&johnson, a booster will be needed. for now, there is not enough data, citing multiple studies, the cdc released complex charts and bar graphs containing data on pfizer and moderna. the take away is simple. overtime, vaccine efficacy has declined, meaning your chances of catching the virus increase. still effectiveness against hospitalization while slightly decreasing remains relatively high. perhaps the biggest concern, the threat from delta. this graph shows a significant drop in efficacy. >> we are concerned the pattern of decline we are seeing will

continue in the months ahead, which could be used against severe disease, hospitalization and death. >> reporter: while the fully vaccinated have a layer of protection, the cdc estimates likely near the eighth month mark after inoculation, anti-body levels decline, saying a booster increases tell by at least tenfold. meantime, the president using federal leverage to mandate nursing homes to vaccinate staff amid a rash of new infections. he's also ready to fight governors bank mask mandates in schools. >> i am directing the secretary of education, an educator, himself to tack additional steps to protect our children. this includesing overtight authorities and legal action, if appropriate. >> reporter: with struggling to get the first dose to 85 million americans, the booster rollout will be much smoother than the original rush to get shots, never mentioning the need for

mass vaccination sites. the white house says 40,000 locations will be ready including local pharmacies. >> this is no time to let our guard done. we need the finish the job. >> reporter: our nation planning for tomorrow as we all face an uncertain future. >> let's bring into the conversation dr. peter hotez, dean of baylor college of medical center for vaccine development. she also the author of the book preventing the next pandemic, vaccine diplomacy. it's great to have you with us. let's me start with the booster. this is something you and other experts said was coming. what have we learned about this virus and vaccine that now requires a booster shot at this point? >> well, what we are seeing, willie, is a decline in the effectiveness of the vaccine a. lot of the studies are coming out of israel. one out of the mayo clinic

showing against infection, the effectiveness of the vaccine has done down if over 90% to 40 to 50%. so far, it's keeping up pretty well in terms of keep people out of the hospital, that decline, 30 to 49%, if that's the tip of the sphere, we're start seeing a precipitous rise in hospitalizations among vaccinated individuals. we're hearing anext dietz from physicians that 10, 20% of their hospitalizations are vaccinated. it's not too surprising, when we rolled out these vaccines, they were only given a three-to-four-week interval between first and second dose. that's how the phase 3 trials were done. if you remember back if december and january, we are losing 3,000 american lives a day and there was a crisis and so we had to get people fully immunized in as

quick a time as possible. it saved a lot of lives. the tradeoff was doing that short interval you get a decline in durability and length of protection. in some ways, that teams the deal is there was going to be a three-part vaccine. >> it's great always to have you in the show. thanks so much. coming back, we will turn to the story overseas, the special forces in the war. "morning joe" is coming right back. e war. "morning joe" is coming right back baaam. internet that doesn't miss a beat. that's cute, but my internet streams to my ride. pshh, mine's so fast, no one can catch me. that's because you both have the same internet. xfinity xfi. so powerful, it keeps one-upping itself. can your internet do that? we've got you taken care of, sgt. houston. thank you. that was fast! one call to usaa got her a tow, her claim paid... ...and even her grandpa's dog tags back.

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. welcome back to "morning joe." joining us now "wall street journal" reporter covering foreign affairs jennifer d' nati. also with us, the u.s. national editor of the financial times, ed luce. i want to talk with afghanistan and the post-9/11 america. rarely have so many lives and so much cash been spent on so little. it would be nice to think that u.s. politics will learn from this debacle -- and both parties

are police it. but the story is far from over. america may quit this yourever war. it will go on. there will be little time for post-more tells as we come to grips with the implications of a rebooted taliban. the ground in washington. after 9/11, each u.s. party chose one country as their target of nation building. republicans picked iraq. democrats chose afghanistan. the split was settled by domestic politics rather than conditions abroad. tragedy is that history will continue with or without america. so, ed, you call this a tragedy what's happening. there is no question these images ve have been sewing the last fur or five days, what are the long-term and short-term implications of what is happening right now? >> what i think the biggest concern in addition to what happens inside afghanistan is the impact on pakistan, which, of course, is a nuclear arms

state. which fosters the tal pan in the 1990s, fostered its riots and has undoubtedly been behind its resurgence in the last few weeks and months and the last 20 years. a talibanized, increasing talibanized pakistan is a deep concern. it's a national securities concern with the united states, but it's also one for its allies and partners in the region and in europe. i think that if you look back at the withdrawal from iraq in 2011, under the obama administration, the vacuum that that left, which, of course, led to the royal vices and then sucked the united states back into the region into iraq and to syria, is anything, sit kind as a parallel, if anything, a better situation than what wee face today? because iraq at least had a

sobering stable semi legitimate government. the afghan and taliban are not going to behave in this sort of international act and norms that we've seen from iraq. so i think the situation and the potential vacuum is worse. >> jessica, we've got a question for you from david ignacious. david. >> jessica, i want to ask you about eagle down, your new book, and the special forces fighting the forever war is your title, subtitle. tell us a little bit about what these words meant for the special forces. they bore the brunt of so much of the difficult fighting. do you think it permanently damaged? what do you think they are feeling now as they look at this tragic ending in afghanistan? >> i mean i think the problem is, that although this was avoidable, in the special operations community, it's well

known that these soldiers had been all that has really held afghanistan together for the past few years and that's very much the subject of the book. i am looking closely at what these soldiers have been doing on the ground starting from the first operation to say the city which fell in 2015, since then, these soldiers have been constantly out there on the front lines. they haven't received any credit pr acknowledgment knowledgement from the government and this has been frustrating for them for two reasons him one of them is because policies in washington have not really reflected the realities that these people have experienced and second of all, they're fighting a war that the rest of the nation knows nothing about,er that familiess are increasingly isolated bot in their day-to-day lives, the average american has no idea what their family members are doing widows describe their hubs dieing in wars that people barely know or is still going

on. >> it's new pieces in the financial times, thank you, jessica's book is "eagle down, the last special forces fighting the forever war." coming up the surge of covid cases started to have a noticeablesque on the american economy in the pace of reopening. steve ratner joins us next with his charts. "morning joe" is coming right back. ah!

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. would you return troops like this even in president trump had not made that deal with the taliban? >> i would try to figure out how to withdraw those troops, yes. look, george, there is no good time to leave afghanistan. 15 years ago would have been a problem. 15 years from now. the bake choice it is. am i going to send your sons and your daughters to war in

afghanistan, in afghanistan in perpetuity? >> that is president biden speaking a new interview. that portion released moments ago about the u.s. withdraw from afghanistan and a new associated press norc poll finds 62% of americans do not think america's longest war there in afghanistan was worth fighting. broken down by party, 67% of democrats and 57% of republicans say, the war in afghanistan was not worth it. so, joe, these are numbers taken in the midst of this rolling crisis we are watching right now in afghanistan 20 years after. >> reaction to the attacks of september 11th we will go to afghanistan to destroy the capably of al qaeda to perform. >> right. you know, it is, it's interesting that even in the midst of this chaos, even with all the scenes of the afghans suffering, the fears of women,

the young girls being singled out for persecution, so, there is unanimity among americans again, more so most issues, democrats and republicans alike, a majority that didn't think that war was worth fighting. wants troops to come home. 75% of americans wanted all the troops out of there. so, we have been talking this week with foreign policy experts. we have been talking to many others who, like me, believe we should have kept 2500 troops in afghanistan, but, as willie, as i've said all week, i think i'm in the majority here. i'm in the minority here. most americans have been sick and tired of this war for a very long time, so, it will be very interesting to see how much damage this ends up doing to joe

biden. a lot, obviously, among influencers and elites and foreign policy experts. and world leaders. but perhaps not quite as much from the american people as many of us would have originally thought. >> yes, joe biden campaigned on getting out of afghanistan. he hasn't wavered on that. but there is a distinction between leaving the country, which i think as you say most americans want to and leaving this way, the execution of what we are seeing right now is not something americans support. fulton county georgia, the democratic strong hold that includes much of atlanta and helped president biden narrowly flip the state in 2020 is being forced to comply with new regulations from a state election board panel. a republican-controlled review will look into the county's election processes, despite an independent monitor finding no evidence of fraud in multiple

audits confirming the results. the three-member panel will conduct an investigation from the equipment used to the process of registering voters. activists warn this is another step towards complete republican control over elections in that state. joining us now, editor at large for the non-profit newsroom, msnbc contributor, aaron husseins. so explain a little bit since are you there in atlanta in the and up understand this as well as anybody. what exactly is happening in the state with this review? >> well, you know, thanks for asking, willie. you know, with spent some time in atlanta, yourself, for people watching. most black people live in fulton county. it's where atlanta is. arguably in the state and the south. so, you know, it's interesting that you have this all white panel reviewing their election practices and that fulton county is really the first place where the state elections board wanted to focus on this false spectre

of voter fraud. as you mentioned, you had multiple reviews of georgia's election results. we know the georgia blew by about 12,000 votes back in november and, you know, fulton county has long been a target of republicans who wanted to try to paint the county as corrupt again at their racial covid launching add to that. these are the state elections, these are the times of shenanigans that federal intervention can help to prevent this is what democratic lawmakers are saying, justifies the need for federal ledgelation at this point. you know, this kind of move would have been subject to pre clearance under section 5 of the voting acts right, in america, georgia didn't need permission to investigate no bus claims of widespread fraud. we know disenfranchisements are happening. long lines, denying people water.

closing precincts and delivering brop drop boxes, there is a national effort to intimidate this effort rather than that expand it. this is the latest effort. >> you talked about long lines we seem to see every four years, the issue of water, getting rid of drop boxes. that's the process. those are barriers set up for actual voting. i will say in the past, a lot of activists have figured out ways around some of those barriers, obviously, you look at 2020, the highest voters turnout in history. but it's the other side of it that we're talking about here i know have you talked about others have talked about, where instead of just putting up barriers to voting for people of color, you know have in fulton county also efforts across the country other places, republican-led legislatures who

want to control the voting rooms, who want to control how it's counted and it seems to me, while we need to look at all of these issues, this is, perhaps, the most dangerous part of these republican legislature efforts out there. because they want to be able to get inside and figure out what votes they're going to count and what votes they're not going to count. >> yeah. and, joe, really, this is the difference in what 21st century voting sprex looks like, it's not just trying to prevent people from having access, even if you do make it through those long lines and are able to drive, you know, long distance, tosh able to cast your ballot because your precinct was closed or there wasn't a blockoff to drop your ballot off. if are you able to kind of hurdle all of these obstacles, they are now you know our efforts are under way to kind of codify challenges to those votes

as being rejit mat and, you know, again, this is the kind of thing that would have been subject to pre clearance under section 5 of the voting rights act. i read it, this month is the anniversary of the passage of the voting rights act. i've head the whole thing. i know we make a lot out of section 5 and the two kind of being gutted by the supreme court. but there are 19 sections of the voting rights october and we would do well as, you know, journalists, reallies a a democracy to get more familiar with the voting rights act. it's something that i talked about with joe in conversation around voting rights for our virtual summit on the 19th, which is under way. that will air tomorrow. but this is the work of a lot of the black organizers and lawmakers marking the 101st anniversary of the ratification of the 19th amendment, we know

the franchise left women of color behind. to you know, we're focusing on voting radio its to close out our virtual sum. but you know the franchise remains more fragile than ever for the majority of the electorate women, marginalized folks who are really on the front lines of this modern day battle for suffer raj him we know the franchise remains fragile for them. and there are attempts to curb their access to the ballot. also to your point, joe, even if they are able to cast that ballot, whether or not it is going to count. >> when the chairman of the fulton county says fulton county is driven by the big lie. let's turn to new numbers from the labor department show weekly jobless claims drop to 348,000. that is a pandemic low, providing more evidence of a rebounding economy and job mark. joining us now, former treasury official and "morning joe" economic analyst steve ratner. good morning.

what do you see in these numbers? >> good morning, will little. well, these numbers certainly are good numbers. they continue the trend as you said of gradually declining new claims for unemployment insurance and so they show signs of an economy that is recovering. but i think be-- we also have to recognize the delta variation and so forth have had some impact on the economy in a negative way. i can show you charts that illustrate that. let's look first at consumer sentiment. how consumers feel about economy. the university of michigan does this survey every month. you see on the right the big drop of the beginnings of the pandemic, the grey bar being the recession. all the way on right, you can see this very significant drop in consumer confidence in july. one of the six or seven biggest drops if consumer confidence that we've ever had and it takes it back to 2011. so consumers are clearly getting a bit nervous about the state of

the economy with the delta variation and the rise in infections. you can see in what we call real time data, recent data, impact on how americans are behaving as virus upsurge continues. so, for example, in the next chart, you can see what's going on with airlines where the number of travelers passing through tsa checkpoints has been declining. normally it would be 2.5 million americans in a pre-pandemic. in july, it was about 2.1 million screenings at tsa checkpoints. so far in august it's down to 1.5 million. not a hostage drop, something to keep your eye on. you look at the right. you can see how many americans are in the office obviously, a huge drop down:00 slow recovery up to 35% of office workers back. now that's dropped down 32%. i can show you other data on

subway usage, things like that. all of which show there is is some impact on the economy from the virus and then we can also take a look at how economists are forecasting gdp and inflation, where there is also an impact particularly on gdp from this recent upsurge in the virus. you can see economist's expectations for gdp in 2021 had been rising very significantly during the course of this year's the stimulus programs rolled out, as the economy seemed to be getting back towards normal as people were going back to work. but you look at that little red circle in the upper right corner, you can see recently expectations for gdp went from an increase of 6.6%. that's what people thought in july to 6.2% at present. those are still very, very impressive numbers. we have to recognize the impact of the virus. then on the right, which is really not so much the virus as very large amount of stimulus we

put in this economy and the sharp reopening, you can see expectations for inflation this year have gone up very substantially. they're up to 4.2% for this year from 3.8% just two weeks ago. if you look all the way back in january, the expectation for inflation was only 2%. so the economy as the we said at the beginning of this is generally improving. things are getting better, not ringing huge alarm bells at the moment. we do have to recognize we are facing the twin challenges of a somewhat slowing economy because of the virus combined with increasing inflation because of the supply bottle and all of the.going into the economy and so forth. >> i'm curious what your gut s. i the kel you i flew a week and a half ago. one or two of the airports seemed to be running about half capacity. not as many people on flights.

i flew this week, restaurants were packed again. i am wondering if we have just experiencing a blip, based on what what you have seen and short-lived. >> yes, joe, i think i am generally very much on your page. i do think it is a blip. i think as long as it doesn't get worse, people are trying to get out of their houses. you're right, airports are more crowded, resorts more crowded, hotel room prices, restaurants, people are eager to spend money they couldn't spend in the pandemic. yes, i agree if we keep the virus under control, the economy will continue to reopen. this is a bit of a pothole we have to recognize and keep our eye on it because things could get worse as much as we hope they don't. >> one final question, steve, as

far as people getting back into offices, i know a month ago i was hearing a lot of business owners, a lot of ceos saying that they were going to get post labor day, they were expecting most people to get back into the office. there has been some pull back there. what are you hearing from other business leaders and ceos, has delta changed that dramatically? >> yes. i think there's been impact on return to work protocols companies are following. you see announcement after announcement from companies basically saying we thought we were going to be back labor day. now we think late october. we think it might be november. we're going to make it indefinite for the moment, we're not sure. again, yes, you can see an impact of the resurgence of virus on people going back into the office, and there are those of us that do believe going back into the office is important to

get the economy going, work from home is well and good, certainly some jobs can be done well from home, but at the end of the day, there isn't a substitute for many, many people of being in the office, shoulder to shoulder and working. yes, it is noticeable there, but i would call it a pothole, not a huge chasm that the economy is looking over. >> all right. steve renner, thanks. erin haynes, appreciate you both being on. come back soon. the school district in texas found a creative loophole to get around greg abbott's executive order that bans mask mandates across the state. >> the latest challenge to the mandate coming from a school district you might not expect. about 100 miles northeast of dfw sits the small town of paris, texas. their board voted 5-1 to make masks a requirement as part of

the dress code. they say the governor cannot challenge their ability to dictate how students dress on campus. >> with us, state attorney for palm beach county. dave erinburg. this is interesting. you can make something part of the school uniform, whether it is a mask or certain type of shoes. will this fly? >> hard to say, joe. good morning. always look to paris for leadership in this area, right? >> exactly. >> right. the town in northeast texas require their students to wear mask as part of dress code. that could be something that courts would uphold because it is part of local control. it is uncharted territory here, but the federal government has the backs of parents and school districts. in florida, the federal government said if ron desantis defunds schools, they'll make up the slack. they could threaten to withhold

funds from florida and texas if they continue to act this way, and they could use department of education civil rights enforcement authority under rehabilitation act of 1973 which guaranteed free appropriate public education to file suit against greg abbott, ron desantis, under the theory preventing mask mandates would be a civil rights violation because it puts certain students in harm's way, especially those immuno compromised. like sending someone with peanut allergy into a school knowing other students can eat peanuts around them. there are federal laws employed to protect students, families and school districts from actions by the state. >> boy, it does seem, dave, like right now at this point the governors of texas and florida are posing more than anything else, trying to win a couple of cheap political points only because we all know that the

courts will likely come down in favor of local school boards doing what they need to do, especially in states as large as texas and florida, to allow the local school boards to do things to protect safety, health, well-being of students. >> yeah, joe. i think that's possible. defunding schools is as popular as defunding police. governor desantis has learned that lesson fast, that's why he backtracked and now is saying well, he is threatening to suspend or remove local officials that vote against his order, impose mask mandates in schools. in florida, local officials are saying bring it on, they're calling the governor's bluff. i think the governor doesn't want this political fight in a year he is gearing up for his re-election because not only are local officials on the side of public health, they're also on the side of public opinion.

polls are on their side. i don't think this is a fight the governor really wants in the long run, and as i said, the biden administration has the backs of the states and so that will help. bottom line, if only governor desantis fought as hard to keep guns out of our schools as masks out of schools, he would be more popular and florida would be a safer place. >> you know, it is interesting, dave. i said this over the past week or so, i have been talking to people that voted for donald trump, who usually line up with governor desantis on most issues. this issue is not a winner. very conservative trump supporters in north florida who either run schools or are on school boards are saying i don't know what's going through his mind right now because in our school, we are demanding parents, teachers, and students wear masks at least until we know the extent and severity of

this delta variant. it seems to be a real political loser, not just among democrats and independents but among some in his own base. >> yeah. and desantis may get a short term win in state courts because the state legislature in florida did give him more power this session to override local emergency orders, but in the long run, it is a loser politically and could lose in federal courts if the biden administration decides to intervene. ironically, you're seeing push back by desantis and his administration saying this is federal overreach, which is rich, right? we're here because of state overreach of local governments, people that live in glass houses in tallahassee shouldn't throw stones towards washington, d.c. in palm beach county, more than 3,000 students are in isolation because of covid. more than 600 students that caught covid. this is real. in brown county there are three

educators that died last week. desantis loves to bash socialism, but these actions wiping out local control, muzzling private enterprise like the vaccine passport law look socialist. it is only socialism when the other guy does it. >> thank you so much for being with us. "the wall street journal" and editorial page, conservatives like me think it is rich when a governor that claims to be a small government conservative says no, local governments, you can't do what's best for your children, i'm going to make all of the decisions from the centralized state. >> and add in private businesses, you do what i say. we will continue conversation when we return tomorrow morning. for now, erin gill crist picks up coverage after a two minute break. age after a two minute break.

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and enjoy the ride a little more. ♪ ♪ ♪ ♪ now, get new lower auto rates with allstate. because better protection costs a whole lot less. you're in good hands with allstate. click or call for a lower auto rate today. and good morning, everybody. i am aaron gilchrist in for stephanie ruhle today. it is thursday, august 19th. we start in afghanistan where the number of evacuees is creeping up slowly but surely. 6,000 as of last night. this morning, new scenes of chaos just outside the airport. we want to warn you, this video may be